2021-07-04

Toroidal go - a big capturing race (Sighris vs Bernhard Herwig)

In this post I would like to go through a game of toroidal go that was played recently (between 2020-12-28 and 2021-06-26) on littlegolem. Like all toroidal go on littlegolem, it was a 11x11 no-handicap correspondence game with komi of 4.5. This game was between two players I’ve played against many times over the last decade or so: Sighris and Bernhard Herwig.

This game was part of an ongoing “ladder” competition in which the players are ranked in a “ladder”. Players lower down the ladder are given games with players higher up the ladder, and if they win then they get to move up the ladder to the position of the player who they beat. I've noticed that the lower-ranked player, the “challenger”, is always given the black stones. Maybe this makes sense - I don't know which side is preferable on 4.5 komi 11x11 toroidal go but it seems that it requires some skilled play by White to avoid letting Black get the upper hand in the opening. Here Sighris had black.

I would describe Bernhard as a very solid player. In my first post about toroidal go (an introduction to toroidal go, 2017) I shared a game from 2015 where I had White against Bernhard and lost. I always find my games against Bernhard very challenging.

Sighris is a player who seems to be improving. Sometimes he gets very good positions in his games but misses one single move that would have lead to the win. This is one such game; and there is another one like that from 2017, where I had White and very nearly lost the game. (I look at that game in depth here.)

Sighris asked me to review this game a few weeks ago and I’m happy to do so as it’s an interesting exercise. And it’s an exciting, fun game where both players seem to be focussed on fighting and trading punches!



Revisions
(2021-07-05): Minor edits/typos in the commentary.
(2021-07-18): Added a link to the next post - an in-depth look at a game I played against Sighris in 2017.

7 comments:

  1. Nice game. I can tell you have mastered Toroidal Go very well.

    I would like to share the news that I trained a model to play this game. It's very strong - as strong as or stronger than professional Go players.

    If you are interested, please give it a try on http://www.daoqi.org:8080/?lang=en-US

    You can play against an AI, or let AI play with each other. You can play even game or with handicaps.

    The AI model was trained mainly on 19x19. So it's not as good on smaller boards.

    To give you an idea how many handicaps you should use on a 19x19 board, the strongest model can beat me with 6 stones and I'm an AGA 6D.

    Just a side note: I discovered Toroidal Go by myself 19 years ago and call it **Daoqi**. I guess it doesn't matter what it's called by. So don't get caught up by the name.

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  2. 你好曹先生!
    很高兴看到你的消息。
    Hi Guoliang, thanks for writing!
    I think I'm not a bad player of Toroidal Go, for a human, when it's the way I'm used to (by correspondence, on the 11x11 with 4.5 komi...) But I do not feel like I have mastered it - I feel quite far away from that level...


    Well done for making the AI, I imagine it took a lot of careful work and expertise.
    I was expecting someone to make an AI sooner or later. I will definitely check it out soon.
    Could I share this news elsewhere? There are a few places where people are playing Toroidal Go, I'm sure they'd be interested. To start with, I could put something on Sensei's library:
    https://senseis.xmp.net/?ToroidalGo
    If you want to play real-time games, check out the https://torigo.io/ , it's pretty good.
    I hope you have time to look at some of the other (Toroidal Go) game commentaries I have published here.
    Best regards
    Malcolm / 茂耕

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi 茂耕,

      Nice Chinese name. I suppose you took some time to come up that name :-P

      Sure you are welcome to share the news anywhere you like. And do mention that the AI is based on KataGo. David Wu did the hard work to create the excellent KataGo. I modified it to play Daoqi. All changes can be found here: https://github.com/gcao/KataGo/pull/6.

      I'll check out torigo.io soon. Haven't heard of it before.

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    2. Haha, yes I took a while to choose it, indeed. 我叫沈茂耕。I'll share this good news about your AI soon, hopefully within the next 48 hours. Cheers

      Delete
    3. I played an even game against your AI on the 11x11, as Black, with 4.5 komi. It beat me; I felt completely outclassed - as expected...

      Delete
    4. Guoliang Cao24/09/2022, 02:56

      Not surprised here :-D

      If you play a 19x19 game with it, or even just watch AI play with itself on 19x19, you'll be amazed by the beauty of its game. It fights like there is no tomorrow. There are no lousy moves. All moves are at the vital points except at the end of a game it plays some meaningless moves.

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    5. Hi Guoliang, I just noticed that your site, daoqi.org, seems to be down. That's a pity.

      A quick question for you - do you know of any Toroidal Go life and death (or other) problems?

      (I'm writing via the comment section on the blog because I can't find any other contact details for you! So I hope you get this...)
      Best regards

      Delete

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